tournament ruling

[craig b]

This query comes from a nl hold em home game last night and I would like to know the ruling, if there is a definitive one?
The blinds are 300/600 and its folded round to the cut off who flat calls, button folds and I'm the small blind who makes up the bet and the big blind dwells before raising to 1.2k. The cut off caller then makes it 5k to go. I quickly get out of the way before the bb dwells then calls. The flop comes down Qc 10h 6s, the bb checks and the cut off bets out 6k (leaving him around 4k). The bb goes into the tank, he has roughly 10k in chips. After mumbling to myself that he can't call and hes going to fold, he shows his cards (pocket 8's) face up onto the table. The rest of the table presume hes folded and matey from the cut off shows his Ace rag bluff and goes to scoop the pot.
Its at this point that the bb (realising hes ahead) states that he never actively folded and flipped his cards to get a read from the other player (is this allowed?). Thus ensues all sort of debates and statements about ethics/rulings and the like. Matey who was running the night, was clueless as to a ruling and it ended up being a free for all!!!

Can someone clarify what the ruling should have been?

[Oli]

Pretty sure that in a tournament turning your hand over declares it dead. Cash games, depends on the house and other players...

[Barry]

The TDA Rules 2004 state:

"36. A player who exposes his cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his hand killed. "

If Johnny I was there he would let the hand stand but a penalty of 9 hands (if first offence) away from the table.

But in the true spirit of the game the guy with 8's was pulling a fast one and i would:
1. not invite him back to the home game
2. Tell him that this is just not the done thing and he is way out of line
3. Try and bust him ASAP

[luckyjimm]

Originally Posted by craig b

Matey who was running the night, was clueless as to a ruling and it ended up being a free for all!!!

So who got the pot?

[craig b]

the table agreed it was best to declare the hand void. I gathered my 600 chips in haste. 88 man busted out not long after and the ace rag merchant placed 3rd.

[Terry]

In our home games in that situation as long as there is no one else to act, a player can show their cards. However,

1) The other guy still had chips.
2) He said ''I can't call and im going to fold''.
3) He turned over his cards.

Therefore it's pretty obvious that his hand was dead. The guy should have scooped the pot.

[Thom]

if the player was heard to say "i'm going to fold" then i would have taken that as a declaration and ruled the hand folded

if it wasn't clear that he had made a delaration, the tda rule that the hand stands but the player may incur a penalty would apply. In this case, if it seemed clear that he was acting less than fairly, I would definitely impose a penalty, probably two full rounds.

[Dru]

I have learnt the hard way (lost a few big pots) to NEVER expose your cards until the guy mucks his hand or declares verbally a clear fold.

When I was playing at a few dodge home game style casinos this would happen alot, and with no Tournament Director, you just have to keep your mouth shut and take it and not make the same mistake again.

In a similar situation I raised a player all in on the table and he said call, but had not put the chips in, I did not want to be accused of slow rolling so I said I had the 6 ( board 66KAx) He then said take the pot, but he did not put the rest of his chips in, saying why would I call you have the 6! I did not know what to say and just decided not to make the same mistake again.

IN short Advice: Never expose cards 1st, wait for players to muck, wait for players to move chips in

Tournament ruling: the hand is still LIVE